The Good Library Blog

I've commented on this elsewhee, but a short note.
Tim, do you advocate a return to 'apprenticeship' style training for librarians? So that there is on the job skill *and* a 'paper qualification' to reflect the commitment people show in following a training/study programme.

Pete

Is the commitment any greater than that given by anybody else?

And is it relevant training to the service for which people use libraries these days? In 2005 the Select Committee suggested that there needed to be an urgent review of the training to make sure it was fit for the purpose of libraries now. I don't see anybody, even yet, undertaking that. I just see the same old courses degrees - with no connection at all to what the service should be doing.

The activities in Wigan do not add much to the credibility of the library service and its leadership-- do they?

Tim

Tim,
I guess it depends on the people involved. Some people have given up jobs etc to follow courses of study. Others have studied part-time
I think the issue is not people's commitment, so much as what people can expect out of a career. If, to borrow a Dilbert phrase, we all adopt the job title 'Beverley' and go in one broad pay band, where is the incentive to develop, move on?
The nearest analogy I can think of is teaching; not everyone in a school is a teacher; but this does not (or should not) in itself undervalue the contribution of other staff. In schools indeed, it's hard enough already to get recognition for the contribution of librarians, without abandoning any sense that it is any different from clerical work.
I agree that many library courses do not reflect current practice; but this is not true of all of them, including my (sadly now cancelled) course at UCE. Perhaps a move back to apprenticeship style courses would remedy that *and* provide the experience so many employers want.
Relating to this, many employers don't even care so much for that. As long as you have worked with children, fine, you can be a children's librarian- how hard can it be? (slight wry smile...)
WIth respect to Wigan, it seems more complicated than a simple "libarians are not interested in serving customers". I got extra pay for weekend work when I was with Victoria Wines- noone thought that greedy or indicative of poor service. I agree that striking is not a good route to take; better perhaps to have provided the service and try to get people on side.

I have difficulty making the comparison between librarians and school teachers. I don't think they are the same thing at all. And if people have taken time out to learn something, that is their decision, it doesn't guarantee that their work will be needed.

My life's experience is that none of us is entitled to think we have a career. That has long gone by. We have work and if someone will pay for us to do it we are lucky. If they won't we just have to move on and look elsewhere. That is the harsh world that most people have to live in. I think it is wrong for people who work on libraries to believe they are entitled to a certainty that almost no one else has. That is big part of the problem we have with the service-- people keep demanding as if they are entitled to security and remuneration. Why?

There is almost no staff turnover in the library service and that is reflected in the service that is given. There isn't an appropriate mix of age, culture and experience as there needs to be. It's not fair on the public who pay.

I agree with some of that Tim. I think we agree that service needs to be good, that people need to earn their place. I guess we just see that arising from different means.
And I certainly don't want a closed shop as such. I just don't see how you can square getting a good mix of people (a good thing, btw) with not providing some sense of progression and reward. Harsh realities of the market, perhaps, but I don't see that as a good argument for anything. Things are as they are, not necessarily because that's a good thing. Don't confuse is with ought, as my politics lecturers taught me ;) And what I might seem to be arguing for inlibrarians case, I would extend to all careers- I don't claim special treatment. And it may be that low staff turnover isn't due to dog-in-the-manger librarians, so much as the job being so minimised that who would want to do it? I think that's the core issue- and ironically I felt the same when I was a teacher- that librarianship is a job anyone can do, so why have a professional structure at all?
As noted, I have been both a teacher and a librarian, and they are not so different in a lot of ways. Whilst librarians don't have the demands to produce grades the way teachers do, they still have to perform- and as a school librarian, you are expetced to teach, manage classes, support teaching, and be appropriately grateful that you're there at all.
I think we also need to stop thinking that all libraries are public libraries. They are, oddly, perhaps the *least* typical of library services.

Well, for example, my experience of high quality book shops taught me that there are many people leaving education who are exceptionally well informed, interested, responsible and energetic who would be very glad to work in a library for a year or two before moving on to other things. They are a very good source of well motivated givers of good service. They are perfectly happy to know that there may not be a career for them.

There are also many people who change careers in mid life who are perfectly able to make the same high quality contribution.

Progression is not what motivates either of these groups and reward can be sufficient to meet their needs.

Wigan sounds no different to most places. If at the point of seeking to extend opening hours the groups of people employed had included these two there would have been no problem at all. There are plenty of people happy to work weekends and evenings, it suits their lives much better than working during the day. Go in a pub and you'll see them behind the bar.

(By the way this is all about public libraries, not school, academic or professional ones- they are each a different subject completely)

I don't doubt any of that. There are many grads working as library assistants for example. But what if after two years there's no incentive to stay? Who provides stability (not stagnation, but an assurance that there is a degree of continuity?) We're doomned to endless churn otherwise.
And I myself took a mid-life career change into librarianship, as I saw the chance to do the job *and* study the area in more depth.
Libraries should make the most of any talent, including allowing for weekend opening, and provide for people who want to make a career to do so.